For the last several weeks the Golf Course has remained open for the community on Thursday nights for supper and drinks. This has proven to be a successful opportunity for neighbors to meet other neighbors and socialize. So far each night the event has attracted 30 to 40 people , many of whom report it as a pleasant experience. The food is good and the atmosphere friendly.
This can be a win-win for both the neighborhood and the Golf Course. If this opportunity interests you, we encourage you to give it a try.
We’ve been there several times, great atmosphere, good food / beveages and a good chance to meet some neighbors
We are in a major battle with the Golf Course owners to save our Golf Course from development into homes. Many postings have been made here in the past stating homeowners should not give Charlie, who still owns a portion of the Golf Course, and Joe Syufy the majority owner, one dime for a subsidy unless they were willing to be transparent with the Homeowners and share their books. They have not! I don’t understand the logic of supporting these guys who are working right now to develop their application to build over 100 homes on our golf course. As long as Charlie and Syufy own the golf course, if you play golf here or spend you money at their restaurant and pro shop, you are thereby subsidizing their evil, morally corrupt intentions. There are better ways to meet our neighbors and socialize without working against our own objectives. Could someone please explain how patronizing their business makes one bit of sense?
I agree with Jim 100%.
CONSIDER THIS:
We understand Jim’s point. It is true Morgan Creek LLC has made a preliminary application to Placer County to put homes on the golf course. As has been pointed out here, there are very high hurdles to overcome. We believe that financial, political, and environmental issues make it very unlikely that significant residential development of the property will be feasible any time soon if at all.
The golf course owners said last year that they were cash flow positive. If development proves unfeasible, wouldn’t it be a win win to be left with a surviving, or even thriving, course. The owners would then be free to continue to build on it’s success or be in a better position to sell it to someone with a vision of making a true community asset. Our use of the facilities might, in some small way, contribute to that outcome. The alternative would be closure, a lose-lose for everyone.
I applaud the MC Owners viewpoint. However, from all the things and dealings I heard about Joe Syufy, I do not have any respect or trust for him at all. Because of his greed, our community had to spend more energy, consulting fees and legal fees to defend our position and property value. Joe Syufy could have sold the course to someone with a vision to keep up the golf course. Unfortunately, he only has $$$$ in his vision. So he threatened to close the course and/or build home if the home owners do not subsidize the golf course.
Unless Joe Syufy shows interest that he is willing to work with our community, I would not support the current ownership.
That would make sense mcowners if we were dealing with golf course owners that were ethical, honest and had integrity. None of those virtues apply in this situation. I have personally met with Charlie and witnessed him disparage homeowners in this community and refer to them as small minded. Furthermore, he said if they refused to see the wisdom of subsidizing his golf course, then he threatened that homeowners would have to live with the development of homes on the course or suffer the consequences of having fences installed and the closure of the course.
Let’s not forget that Charlie and Joe Syufy did exactly that to the Sunset Whitney Golf Course. The Sunset Whitney homeowners spent many months subjected to a horrible state of decline on their golf course with brown turf, weeds and pests abutting their homes causing a devastating reduction in home values. After hundreds of homeowners attended numerous contentious meetings with the City Council, the City of Rocklin finally relented and bought the Golf Course from Charlie and Joe for $5.8 Million – a $3.3 million profit after owning the course for only a few years.
It sounds to me like your proposed strategy to support Charlie and Joe is a little bit of “a hope and a prayer”. If homeowners patronize the golf course and restaurant with Charlie and Joe Syufy as owners, it is my firm belief that they will be participating in their own demise.
While I understand many of the points that have been made. There are a great many people who rely on this Golf Course and the golfers and restaurant patrons who keep them employed and working. While I understand so many frustrations I have been able to meet some of the staff at Morgan Creek and feel for them as they are being put in the middle of the ugliness while just trying to earn a living to care for their families.
Unfortunately, the employees are in the middle. But let’s not forget it is their bosses who have threatened us with development or closure. We can and should be empathetic to the employees without losing our focus on the critical threat that we, and the employees, are facing.
I think the employees are very aware of the ugly situation surrounding the golf course. Let’s give them some credit – they are adults and are not naive. I suspect they have chosen to work and stay here with full knowledge of the risk involved. If and when the golf course closes, how do you think Charlie and Joe Syufy will reward their loyal employees? Ask the former employees at the Sunset Whitney course how they were treated.
My 30+ year career in public service informs me that we cannot use reason, common sense and civility to successfully negotiate with these greedy, dishonest bullies who use aggressive, threatening tactics. It is my sense that we are making a big mistake by taking a passive approach in response to Charlie and Joe Syufy’s aggression. A much better approach would be to use aggression to counter aggression and counter their force with an equal force.
Jim I think your choice of words is silly.
What is the purpose or running a business? I don’t mean a non-profit or public service entity but a business. What John Carey et al failed to acknowledge early on is that the course owner/operators have far more leverage than the HOA does. And as a businessman, you negotiate from a position of strength differently than the contrary. In the process, Carey and team clearly pissed off the ownership group to the point they don’t plan to do anything more than maximize their exit proceeds. This isn’t a philanthropic effort.
My sense is that the HOA will be making a huge mistake should they try to strong arm in any way. They have no leverage and have already wasted a ton of money on legal fees. Syufy alone can sink the HOA finance battleship if a legal battle or some other antagonistic response is what you are suggesting.
I say we enjoy the club and golf course for as long as it is here. The employees are good people and so are many of our neighbors. At the very least we build relationships that will outlive the golf course, and make no mistake the course is gone and new homes will be built.
Game over.. drink up!
Phil,
I am not suggesting a full out assault. What I am suggesting is that it is not wise for the HOA to take a passive approach in dealing with Charlie and Joe Syufy. And the HOA certainly should not be not be suggesting that home owners subsidize these unethical golf course owners who are threatening the demise of our community’s golf course.
And you are totally wrong when you state that the HOA and home owners have no leverage. We have plenty of leverage – over 1000 voices strong that will make a powerful impact statement to the County Board of Supervisors. I agree that Syufy alone can win the battle of financial resources but this is about more than deep pockets. Ultimately, no homes will be developed on the golf course unless the development is approved by the Board of Supervisors. Believe me, that approval will not be shaped by the deep pockets of Syufy or Attorneys – it will be shaped by the political process. That is where the HOA and home owners gain their leverage.
I also understand the business perspective. I built and ran my own business for 7 years and was the Operations Manager for a Fortune 500 Company in the Bay Area for 4 years . So I do understand that the fundamental premise for a successful businesses is to make money and I wholeheartedly support that reality. I just do not support and trust the two owners the golf course.
I do think that the HOA and home owners have a reasonable chance to stop the development of homes on the golf course. However, the HOA will have no recourse if Charlie and Syufy choose to put up fences, turn off the water and close the course in retribution if their development application is denied. To me, that is where Charlie and Syufy have their greatest leverage.
So I am not suggesting an all out attack on the Golf Course owners, but the HOA should be providing maximum resistance to development and force Charlie and Syufy to choose between closing the course or selling the course and making a reasonable profit.
It’s not over until it is over…….
I thought I have seen somewhere that there were willing buyers for the course. What happened there ?
No one is willing to pay what Morgan Creek LLC is asking – $6.5 Million – and Charlie and Joe Syufy are not willing to sell for less.