The golf course owners have presented our HOA board with a proposal to have all homeowners subsidize the golf course by adding $30 or more to HOA monthly fees. We understand the amount could be as much as $50 now. It is a moving target. They claim the course is losing money and without this help it may have to close. However, as of now they refuse to open their books.
Our Board is preparing to bring this proposal to the homeowners in a public meeting for comments. This was to be in early May but is postponed indefinitely. A vote is planned shortly thereafter. With no subsidy the course owners have suggested closure, possible shutting down of the back nine, or attempting to open the course lands for development of more residential housing.
These issues are critical to protecting our homeowner values. You owe it to yourselves and the community to get informed and become active. Together we can make a difference! Regular bi-monthly Board and Homeowners meeting is May 15. Be there.
$30 more isn’t a problem, as long as this is all factual…
$30 × 3 or 10 years ×500 residents = a lot of money and I’m sure it will be 10 years not 3…have you ever heard of a bank giving out a loan and not expect it to be paid back? Why would we just give that kind of money to someone who obviously is bad a managing money?
I never heard anyone mention it was going to be a loan. I understood that it was an investment (not to be repaid).
How does $50 – $60 a month for 10 years sound?
@Jim sounds like your the silent partner!
@jim… lol
The problem is that he could keep asking for more next time
Gibson will keep asking for more and more next rounds
Exactly my point. Ms Ward completely missed.
Really? You must golf or you are a part owner.
DEAR GOD I WILL GIVE THAT CREEP 30 BUCKS A MONTH FOR NOTHING…HE HAS A LOT OF NERVE EVEN ASKING! #30 BUCKS #FREE MONEY #NO! WHAT IS HE EVEN OFFERING IN RETURN? #NOTHING…VERY TYPICAL OF AN A******…#KARMA!…THREATENING YOUR NEIGHBORS WITH DEVELOPERS IS A CHEAP SHOT…THAT GOLF COURSE HAS BEEN NOTHING BUT A PAIN IN THE A**!
I’m fairly certain that name calling will not help.
@Eric…your right but its appalling that the owner is asking us to GIVE him 30 a month for ten years x 500 residents…that’s a loan that he isn’t expected to pay back??? Not to mention he’s had several other golf courses go under!
Even if it’s 10 years, that’s $3,600 for me. My realtor has said I will likely lose At least 10 times that or more in my property value if the golf course closes. It’s an easy decision for me. Not to say that I want to pay it, but it’s the best economic decision for me. I’ll be paid back by retaining my property value.
Mr. Gibson and his silent partner(s) have failed to properly manage the golf course. Based on the lack of financial transparency it would be unwise to supplement his/their business. It would be unwise to ignore the recent demise of the Lincoln golf course. The veiled threat of further developing our community is offensive. After talking with several neighbors we feel Mr Gibson should probably sell the course to the highest bidder and find another community to threaten. Its our understanding after talking to people from Lincoln Mr. Gibson holds interest in another nearby Golf Course? If thats true, that community should be warned .
Lance,
I think this is a planned action,buy a failing golf course property cheap, close the course upset the property homeowners and sell the vacant land as potential development property to a builder once the zoning has been approved. It’s a business move, It’s our job not to allow the land to be rezoned. They’ve already recaptured some of the investment with the sale of the property on Morgan dr. Look what they did in the city of Rocklin.
You are right on. He is playing the same game now as he did with rocklin Whitney and Davis. He bought all these golf course at foreclosures af 2ish million each and then he makes money by either threatening the neighbors or by selling it back to city with double the amount. If we succumb this time, he will find other excuses in the future for more subsidies or building houses yet again. We will need hoa to negotiation for terms and conditions. Otherwise it is going to be long time game to play.
If it’s a poker game we don’t have any cards in our hand and the owners have a royal flush. Our hand was dealt when we bought our homes in a golf course community and paid a premium to do so. There was no promise the course would stay open. The owners can simply walk away if they choose and our property values will decline. I’d rather pay a few hundred a year than lose thousands in property value.
Why aren’t the owners considering selling the course to someone who is interested in taking over? It has changed hands a couple times since we moved in.
Our HOA should require Mr. Gibson to present the course’s balance sheet, income statement and statement of cash flows before taking his proposal to the owners.
What I’m most curious about finance-wise are the salaries he’s taking (for himself) and paying (his employees/family members) and if these salaries are in-line with industry averages (or are they inflated and causing expenditures to rise disproportionately). This is something a good forensic accountant or valuation company could uncover if the owner is amenable to opening up the books. Before I would invest in any business venture I would expect to know all of the finances in detail in order to make an informed decision. I’m not necessarily opposed to investing in the golf course and thereby, maintaining my property values, but I need a lot more information first.
I’m new here, how long has this been talked about? Earlier in the year? Before that?
Hi Debbie, this news just emerged early this week.
We need so much more information as homeowners. Who is looking at the financials? How much money does the course make and how much are they taking out versus putting back. I just don’t trust the current owners. Trust has to be earned. I will go to the meeting but we REALLY need to know EVERYTHING about the financials of the golf course….not just the board making decisions for us though I appreciate their work. For that reason I think we should consider a neighborhood meeting to gather our thoughts before meeting with the board so we can discuss these things. Does anyone agree?
I have seen the course go downhill over the last 10 years. The golf course grass has been infiltrated with foreign species, the outside area allowed to die and get out of control. Residents have begged for regular cutting along their properties and they are sporadic at best. The entry on the PFE side becomes very ugly once you pass the HOA lawn areas and enter the golf course area. I met with the president years ago (not the current) about what could be done to assure the entry way looks as good on either side say 20 feet all the way into the neighborhood? The answer I got was we have NO say about the condition of this area. We are at the mercy of the golf course. It grows weed infested and unedged. The occasional cutting is left with the wall areas unedged and leaves and blown into a corner to accumulate the whole season. We have pride in our yards and have all these rules but we have to drive by a unkempt randomly cared for areas. I would like to see the HOA to care for the entry way ALL the way into the neighborbood. That would be such a simple fix. I would demand that this be met if any more money goes to the HOA before we consider funding the golfcourse. Those of you who feel the same should step up and give your support to such items that are important to homeowners. Another issue on the PFE side is speed bumps. People drive 50 plus as they come in. I have seen people beg for them at meetings and we seem to get ignored. I think we are asking for some pretty basic stuff here. Let’s use this opportunity to say what WE want in mass.
@cathy. .you are 100% correct, I have lived here for 14 years and have seen things continually go down especially with the current owner of the golf course!
Its great to fread the feedbac and comments. We have a great community. Yrs the Golf Course has had several different owners. I have lived here for 14 years. My coworkers home backs up to the Lincoln golf course. He and his wife went through what we are going through now. Same threats and games. We already pay 15 different property taxes
9 to the to school systems. Thats enough! Please dont fear empty threats. Im sure for a fee more buck Proceda Landscape would be happy to expand their landscape responsibilities.
We live in a beautiful area. If you read, sometimes golf courses can fall victim to realestate developers. This has happened in several states due to the drop in the popularity in Private Golf Courses. Things are not always what they appear to be $$$. Mr. Gibson tried to develop land on the Lincoln course and was declined by thr city council. The property values continue to RISE.
We do not need cards to play play his game – a community’s voice is A POWERFUL THING. We just need an informed community and a unified voice voice to stop any development. Though not my preference,vacant fields are better than filling in the open space with homes. If Developer Joe Syufy and Charlie want to close the course rather than sell it for a profit, they can walk away from the $2-3M they have invested.
This Charlie Gibson that is a part owner obviously does not know how to manage a business and now wants to have the homeowners help pay his and the other partners debt to keep the golf course open. There are homeowners that do not golf nor can even see the golf course from their homes and really????? they want us to help them as he moves to Serrano which is an elite area. This golf course has been in financial trouble before. We as homeowners will be out money with higher dues if the idea passes and down the road these owners will either sell it or lose it either way we as homeowners will ultimately lose (do we get reimbursed/NOT). Perhaps, the owners should take a loan out against their homes to subsidize their own debt. Suggestion: Golf course owners should approach the City of Roseville for a possible purchase as they own other golf courses. I agree with Cathie as well.
Lequeita, a friendly amendment to your suggestion: Morgan Creek residents and the golf course are not serviced by the City of Roseville. Morgan Creek is in the service boundaries of Placer County and the County does not operate golf courses. Also, it is my understanding that Developer Joe Syufy and Charlie have no interest in selling the course. They have stated to numerous residents that if MC homeowners do not subsidize the golf course, then they will immediately commence developing homes on portions of the course. We need to organize as homeowners (the Blog and Newsletter are effective tools), develop a plan of resistance, retain an attorney, engage with the County Supervisors and inform the media when appropriate. OUR BEST WEAPON TO RESIST THIS HOSTILE ATTEMPT TO DESTROY OUR BEAUTIFUL COMMUNITY BY DEVELOPER JOE SYUFY AND CHARLIE IS TO INFORM OURSELVES AND SPEAK WITH A UNIFIED VOICE. Believe me, if we act together with a singular purpose and a unified voice, our community will be a powerful force that cannot be stopped.
Thanks Jim!!!
We have the meeting on the 15th that all need to attend. After that we need to band together. For myself, please let me know what I can do as a homeowner. Volunteer is some capacity. Let me know.
Thank you Jim. I agree.
Charlie Gibson and Joe Syufy continue their same playbook. They are threatening the community through discussions and lobbying with a small group of golfers and selected homeowners. No formal outline of a tangible proposal is ever shown. The financial need is not disclosed, other than verbal requests to believe the need is justified.
It sounds as if discussions with the Board have been moving forward with ever changing details. In essence, a moving target with nothing for the community other than removing a threat from undercapitalized owners.
As previously stated, look at their failed track record. Meet and talk to owner’s from the Rocklin course and listen to their stories of demonstrated bad faith and threats. A new owner committed to the community and who would recognize that a cooperative arrangement could help both the course and the homeowners.
So I was told he is asking $50 for 10 years. That’s 300K per year and $3 million dollars for NOTHING in return. If the gold course was in such a poor health, why did he just remodel the Clubhouse. Giving people free $ when they have proven they don’t know how to handle money is proven over and over again to FAIL. Let him sell and move to Serrano. This is not passing the smell test
So now it’s 50×10 years…no wonder he’s moving out of the neighborhood!
To Charlie -I hope you will reconsider your intentions. I believe you are not inherently a bad person but your judgment has been clouded when dealing with financial gains. Son, money is not everything in life. When you come to this world you have only your physical body and a soul. When you die, you also will leave with nothing but your body and soul. You can’t carry anything materials with you. You will only be remembered for how you make other people feel. Do you really want all the people from your community to remember you for the wrongs you have done to them ? Or do you want to try to be a Good Samaritan and be remembered for the good that you have done ? I cannot say that there is true karma but I do believe in human kindness. Be good, son.
So true @ N I
Think about this before you decide to agree pay $30/month – If Mr Gibson is stating course is losing money now even with current such strong and healthy nation-wide economic growth, what about when recession comes? it’s about management and more reasons else you guys already mentioned above. For a win-win solution, I would say Mr Gibson could sell course to new owner who expertise and enjoy running golf course business, take money (I believe course value has been appreciated quite a ferw) and look for many other investment without so much KIOS like this.
Un the interest of all homeowners, and based on what happened in Rocklin, i believe this subject is newsworthy and the media should be contacted to help expose Mr. Gibson and his strategies. I am certain both the Sacramento Bee and the local TV agencies i.e. “Call Curtis” would be very interested. Please Mr. Gibson just sell and leave before your exposed as the closet developer you really are!
What a great business!!
Each owner will subject to pay $30 to $100 for 10 yrs.
Let’s average $50 per month X 500 Houses = $25000 per month X 12 month = $300000 per year.
In 10 years our contribution will be $300000 X 10 = $3 millions.
He bought this golf course for less than $3 million. Do we suppose to pay for his purchase? Are we thinking with right mind?
Why we need to subside him instead of we can collectively buy this Golf course.
I do not mind paying $100 per month for next 10 years to own the piece of this Golf course. But I do want to pay a dime for nothing to this crook Charlie Gibson.
Guys think big ….Not let this loser to manipulate us or Black mail us.
Charlie Gibson has a bad reputation in media and city ordinances….all you know his past track (the history of Rockin and Davis golf courses ) which he owned in the past and played the same game.
Let’s involve the media ….Sac Bee… reach out the County supervisors earlier and let them know about what is going on so his houses development plan would not be approved. Shut every door for him and force him to sell this golf course.
J D . I know your upset and as disgusted as the rest of us,but he does have a family. So I would ask that you keep it it professional. Thanks
James- we all have families and bills to pay. The thing is everything you do has a consequence. Sometimes you can get away with once or even twice, but your reputation and bad deeds eventually catches up to you. Not sure how JD’s post was unprofessional, if everything stated is true. I think asking for a 10 Subsidiary is absurd! Who knows what is going to happen two years from now, yet alone 10. Asking this without opening your books is insanity and makes you look suspicious at best.