Over 150 people showed up at last Tuesday’s Morgan Creek HOA Board meeting. Foremost in their minds was the future of the golf course. John Cary, Board President opened the meeting with a brief summary of the status of a proposal the Board was considering, a request from the golf course owners to have the homeowners subsidize the course something over $3,000,000 over ten years which breaks down to a little over $50 per household per month. He said the board in conjunction with its attorneys was preparing the proposal for submission to the community for a vote. The underlying reason cited by the owners was financial difficulties. Without the subsidy the golf course suggested it may close. No timetable has been set for the vote, but the golf course owners have indicated it must be before the end of July.
In open forum, there were a number of concerns expressed by individual homeowners. The recurring theme was that, to date, the owners have refused to provide financials that people believed necessary to make an informed decision. During the forum a straw vote was taken whether anyone would vote for any subsidy without full financial transparency. No one raised their hand.
One developer got up and spoke, based on his personal experience, about the extreme difficulty of developing the course for residential use should it close. Among issues cited were environmental and open space restrictions. Also mentioned was the fact that there was a $2,000,000 business loan with the golf course as collateral.
An announcement was made concerning the starting of this blog by a group of concerned owners. It was stated that the group, Morgan Creek Homeowners Coalition, and this blog were set up to communicate concerns and activities to all homeowners. The stated goal is to act as one voice in opposition to any actions taken to diminish home values through course closure if a better way can be found through compromise and exploring other options. Everyone present was urged to sign up for the blog to keep informed and express their views.
A couple of comments were made that if there is a subsidy that the golf course provide quid pro quo in the form of special perks such as dining vouchers or free golf to homeowners. This would make a subsidy a bit more palatable.
Owners on the Pinehurst side complained that the golf course is not doing their part to maintain the grounds. They cited the continued existence of unsightly weeds despite pleas to remedy the problem.
A question was asked as to whether the existence of the golf course’s proposal needed to be disclosed by homeowners selling their homes in the community. Clearly a concern of all homeowners, one broker in the audience stated he thought it did.
Several comments were made urging the Board to curtail any unnecessary legal fees for work generated on the golf course funding proposal until financial disclosure is made showing a real need for assistance. Someone suggested a study be performed to determine potential home equity losses that could be incurred. This seems to be premature and costly to the HOA, especially since it would be done under threat with no proof of need.
Early in the meeting Sharon Combs, Board member and Chairman of the Gates Committee, announced that after a multi-year effort the gates were in and operating smoothly. A round of applause thanked them for their efforts.
Thank you for the recap! It sounds like the collective voice of those on this blog were represented well at the meeting. All the arguments that were made on this groups behalf make sense!
I’d agree with the point that was made about the Pinehurst side of the course not being maintained! There are weeds along Pinehurst Drive by hole 16 and 17. Very unsightly. At very least they could take care of that part that everyone drives by. The part the HOA covers is well done, then you have the area that the course maintains with weeds. I guess under the current circumstances, we probably won’t get much support from the course to support cleaning that up!
I personally support keeping the course open…full financial disclosures prior to any assessments, monthly fees should be based on algorithms that consider parcel locations to course boundaries, sliding scale based on Home property assessed values, regular audits, etc…
Instead of asking for $50 per month for each homeowner, why don’t we offer 50 suggestions on how Charlie can increase his revenue.
I’m up for the first 5 if others want to chime in
Offer monthly dinners at the event center for all the residents. Have some food and meet your neighbors. Most people would pay above market for this option = more revenue
Offer residents special rates when the golf course is typically slow, More revenue, nothing to lose
Rent out the space where the pool used to be. Coffee shop, Yogurt shop etc. Make it an activities centers for kids with monthly activities for a fee = more revenue
Golf tournaments for Morgan Creek residents only on slow golf days = more revenue
One more for good measure. I have never seen a newsletter from the golf course on any promotions. Keep the community informed and involved = more revenue.
I personally would want to see Charlie try creative ways to increase business before offering any type of handout. There is a lot of opportunity to grow thinking outside the box.
I like your ideas !!! You should be the one running the course 🙂
Yes, run it like a business.
More “lucrative money makers”: bake sales, yard sales and car washes with girls in skimpy clothes! Get real.
Thisv type of thinking is why most business fail and why Charlie is on his third failed business otherwise he wouldn’t be asking us homeowners to pay for his golf course. In 10 years the amount of money we would be paying is probably more than what he paid for the course in the first place. I would like a free business too, but instead of asking strangers for money I’ll keep being creative on ways to grow my own business. It’s a big NO vote from me.
Great ideas. At least you are thinking and placing those thoughts in the open. For someone to turn that golf course around, their heart and passion has to be in it. From what I hear about Charlie, it does not sound like he is that type of person……
I hope that Charlie exposes to any potential buyer of his home on the third hole, that the wonder views of green grass out their windows might be abandoned by his LLC for greener pastures else where.
@Neighbor – Great ideas! I have asked Charlie & Cole on numerous occasions about keeping the the restaurant open later than 5 pm and/or having dinner orders for pick up. And he told me “I’m not here to run a restaurant I’m here to run a golf course.” Apparently he’s not doing either very well.
A group of us asked if they would stay open later on Thursdays if we had enough people to patronize their business and justify staying open. And they do. I think you will find they are open to ideas if they make business sense.
They are open late on Thursdays? Since when? Another problem is that information is not advertised anywhere. How are neighbors to know?
I am not in favor or subsidizing the golf course in any way. Even if Mr. Gibson opens up his financials. I am a golfer myself, but I don’t like the way Mr. Gibson is trying to force the HOA into a decision to help him with his “golf course.” As homeowners we get no direct benefit of living in a “golf course” community. In fact, we have increased traffic, require guards be made available at the Vineyard gate for golf course participants, etc. If anything Charlie should subsidize us homeowners and pay the HOA for the guards at the Vineyard gates. As homeowners, we have our RFID tags/Gate operational now, a guard is not needed for the homeowners, only for golfers (i.e. for the benefit of Charlie/his golf course…).
If I were the developer of those 7 new homes near the Club House I would sue Charlie because he sold the land based on the value of the community having an operating golf course. Plus, he knew (a year ago he began threatening the Board that he’d have to close if we didn’t grant a subsidy) that it wasn’t going to fly with his lack of transparency, Perhaps the new developer/land owner has the grounds to sue Charlie for selling under false pretenses.
Rob d. Nice suggestions. Does anyone know who is the developer that bought the villa lot ? Someone should contact the to make them aware
The builder who purchased the lots is aware of the situation..
Latest rumor that I have heard is that Charlie has removed his offer from the HOA? AND the course is currently in escrow? We shall see.
That is probably his only move at this point. Lets hope its true….
If the course is in escrow, pray it is with a legitimate golf course operator and not a developer or we might see fences around the property and the water turned off in the near future.
How could it be an escrow this week when it wasn’t even for sale last week? I would be great but the timing is off.
A lot of deals are made without a business/property going on the market. We really do not know what Joe Syufy has been up to?
Hope it will work out better
I really hope it’s true that Charlie is selling the course to another company that can provide the upkeep it needs. It’s been looking unkept for awhile now.
Let’s hope for the best
Charlie hasn’t failed at business, this is what he does. He invests in golf courses for the short term and sees each as real estate in the long term.
He can sell his investment (the course) after he has depreciated it. If there is no ready buyer he can sit on it and wait until the community, city, county or some organization makes him an offer to keep it from becoming a wasteland. In the meantime he will try to develop either parts of it, or the entire property. He doesn’t care about the golf course, just his money – and he is making plenty of it.
I had heard the one of the course largest costs was water. I believe they used recycled water. I read an article (Link below) that says that 46% of golf courses use wells to water and 12% use recycled water. I’m not sure on California environment well drilling rules, but it seem Charlie would pay for the wells in record time and then, save more money than if he was subsidized by the HOA members.
http://gsrpdf.lib.msu.edu/ticpdf.py?file=/article/hartwiger-golf-8-9-13.pdf